valens on promoting EG Black: "I think it's gonna be a really, really cool story"

EDITOR'S NOTE: An earlier version of this article failed to meet Dust2.us' editorial and journalistic standards and has been edited to be more in line with the audio transcription. We apologize to Evil Geniuses and valens for this regretful error.

Evil Geniuses had one of the wilder off-seasons in recent memory as they were fully set on adopting a European roster, only to see it fall apart at the last second. Instead, the organization has decided to search from within and found that their EG Black roster, the ECL team they acquired a year ago, would be the best fit going forward. It isn't without it's own concerns, as the young squad have never played at the top level before and will likely struggle as they get their feet wet.

These concerns are already acknowledged and understood by the organization, with Evil Geniuses' Director of Athletics Soham "valens" Chowdhury explaining how the last week went down, the organization's thought process behind the newest change in direction, and where it went wrong previously. In speaking with Dust2.us' Ryan Friend last Friday, the two were able to get down into the details of how Evil Geniuses has had to grapple with their position in the Counter-Strike universe and the steps they must take to go forward.

Evil Geniuses attempted to transition into a European core and reportedly had verbal agreements with several players in what seemed like Plan A. Can you walk me through what has happened in the last year to cause Evil Geniuses to evaluate making such big changes?

Yeah, first of all, just real quick clarification on the job. To me, it wasn't about B plan, C plan, or D plan. We were exploring multiple parallel paths. So yeah, I think that's just one quick clarification, we can come back to that though. To answer your question about the difference between the end of 2022 and the start of 2023 really is that we made four big changes. I think we might have talked about this in the past, but the four changes we made, which not a lot of people know, because what they see is promoting wiz at the start of this year, right? That's the first change we made.

But alongside with that we made a couple of role changes between HexT, Brehze, and autimatic. That was to put them in more comfortable spots in this season, with wiz being a little bit more of a supportive AWPer compared to how CeRq was playing for us. Practice at the start of the season was going great and we were integrating everyone really well. What really fell flat was being under some pressure in official matches and the pressure from transitioning into the tier-one circuit from the tier-two circuit really caught up with us.

Towards the end of 2022, the team composition has experience with CeRq, Vorborg at coaching and neaLan experienced as an IGL, but maybe new to an English-speaking team. So, I would say there is kind of a learning curve there, and then HexT who's really just learning how to be a tier-one player at that point. Into 2023, there was a lot of changes and we had some additional players learning the ropes. So really that was the big difference.

With role changes not seemingly working immediately, was there ever the thought to just revert back?

We've had a lot of learnings. I mean, to be frank, my personal philosophy is that you can't tell if a player is ready within a cycle or within a season when they're making a transition for the first time, otherwise you could argue even in 2022, at the end, HexT was playing at his best. We played great as a team, we qualified to the Major. So, my opinion personally is from a roster composition perspective, when do you give players that are coming into the circuit in tier one, for the first time, a chance. You shouldn't make judgment calls too early because you want to work with them to see if you can help them, especially building up NA talent, right?

It's kind of unfair in my opinion, to bring them to Europe against the best teams. They start to not play well, but practice is going well where things are a little bit more controlled. So the goal is to make the match environment a little bit more controlled as well. So with us exploring those things, I didn't want to make a judgment call about wiz or HexT too early in the season.

That goes in line with how you have handled the move ups. Is that the philosophy of Evil Geniuses, to stick with it and really give a chance, even if things are not going well?

Yeah, I mean, there's a nuance there that I want to talk about. It's like to me, wiz and HexT weren't failures in the tier-one circuit. It's that they improved throughout the course of the season and we also saw HexT going back to EG Black in the middle part of the season and Black's performance was boosted from the experience he brought in from the tier-one circuit. So there's clear learning and clear growth, and to be honest, like there's a decision of should you give players more time at that point once they have a season or a season and half at the tier one-level?

Just, do you see that growth, at least showing up in the official matches and servers and when that doesn't happen, that's when you should consider at that point making a change. But in terms of whether they are better players now than they were at the start of the season, 100%. To me, my favorite thing is to say, how long did it take some other players like oSee, EliGE, Grim to end up becoming better performers, right?

It takes a while and it's not limited to our players. What we are willing to do though, at EG, I will say something that probably sets us apart is we are willing to give the players a chance to show themselves. Some people just have a naturally higher kind of patience level for playing well under pressure and they handle that better. Some need some help with that, but it's unfair to just throw them under pressure in the tier-one circuit and just say, "Sorry, you're not good enough," without giving them an ample opportunity.

Understanding that, how do we examine bringing in someone like refrezh and now, moving on from him after such a short time?

It's not really about that at all. Meaning to me, bringing in refrezh again further solidifies how do we actually help wiz develop. No one can argue that refrezh is one of the most experienced players in the tier-one circuit. Again, the goal is to... if you want to make our tier two to tier one transitions successful, we have to set them around teammates that can help them be that. So going back to 2022 we had more experience around HexT so we actually wanted to see if that model helps as well for wiz. And again to me, yes, results wise it didn't get too much better compared from the start of the season to the end of the season, but we were competitive in several games against FaZe, against teams, that in my opinion, when we actually had to play matches, we were showing up much more often.

So to me again, that's progress, it shows that wiz has improved, it shows that our team has improved. Was it good enough? I mean to be frank, no. That's why we're making changes, but at the same time, there was progress, but the goal of developing players and how we do that is why we make roster changes, refrezh fit in very nicely to that, to be honest.

Looking then, at your roster strategy, you were looking at several different European players. How were those players fitting into your ethos?

Yeah, this roster building strategy, and we might have even touched on this in our last conversation, you want to really have three or four experienced players and one player that, whether they're doing well right now or not, they're a little bit more inexperienced, because you can have experienced players doing well.

To me, the entire goal of this offseason was we were exploring parallel paths that have very strong cores with players that have experience with each other, and on top of that, try if we can can, if you go EU, let's go all out and try to actually build through that four experienced plus one inexperienced player model. So in this situation with JACKZ, zorte, neaLaN, autimatic, and EliGE, I mean, a lot of players on that list have been playing tier-one events for a long long time, and you can argue that in that kind of roster zorte is actually the inexperienced one.

He did play really well at the Major, in the Challenger Stage, of course. At the same time, tier-one experience wise, he would be the one that actually has the least, right? So in our opinion, that lineup was extremely appealing, because our one even in that case, zorte was someone who was playing well recently. So, when we were considering going European at one point, then it only makes sense to try to make the best roster possible, where we have lower risk. So that was a really good option for us.

Liquid explained their issues with North America and why they're going European. Why would you also entertain the possibility of leaving the region?

Yeah, I mean to be honest, we were entertaining also staying in North America with EG Black at the same time. So to me the pathway wasn't that we have to leave North America honestly, otherwise we wouldn't be here. The pathway was that if we go Europe we should try to make a roster that takes advantage of the natural advantages that currently exist in the European ecosystem, which means more tier-one ready players.

You could argue that they are showing themselves because there are more events to show themselves and their success. If we went Europe, we should try to build this four experienced plus one developing player type of roster, so then we tried that.

We tried a couple different iterations, but to me leaving North America wasn't a focus at all. If the best roster we could build is North American, or a mixture of North American, European Middle East, Asian... honestly, it doesn't matter. That being said, if you go Europe and we're exploring Europe, we should take advantage of what talent exists there.

Can you walk us through what happened with the collapse of the EliGE move and switching gears right at the end?

It's a great question because there are a lot of rumors circulating about which domino fell, and what causes the chain reaction. This is a great time to clarify. So, what I can share for sure, is that EliGE was very interested in several different versions of our roster and one of them was the one that at kind of the roster lock coming up for BLAST Premier Fall Groups, fell apart. The reason it fell apart is we just reached some transfer-related hurdles with one of the players in that lineup.

At that point, I was very very honest with EliGE and with the rest of the team as well, telling them, "Look, if this roster that we've been talking about and potentially we could move forward with is at jeopardy of being made within a time and we're comfortable with going to BLAST and doing all the preseason training camp, and getting them on board and things like that. Then at the same time, you guys should also explore your other options while there's time, even if it's a low amount of time."

We can't control, when in this case, things start to, fall apart a little bit with that version of our plan. But, because it started to, I was very honest with EliGE and that's kind of where we started to get, "okay, If he can't be 100% sure going into the roster lock then you should be exploring options," and that's when things start to unfold between him and Complexity. And of course, I don't know the details about that but I'm sure it was a long night for them.

One thing in my philosophy that I was sharing with all the pieces of the roster, and EG Black included, is that I don't want to have a situation where we're building a roster that's piecemeal. I don't want to have a roster of folks that don't have any kind of cultural or playing experience with each other. It's kind of like bringing players from one culture, or one team there, and just putting five together like a Frankenstein team... so the reason that, for example, we had neaLaN and zorte, autimatic and EliGE, JACKZ and maLeK, made sense was in that version of the roster, maLeK would have been the head coach, where they would have had experience with each other, there's a core there. We've been having experience with autimatic, neaLaN, and maLeK for almost ten or eleven months, So there's a core there that's kind of very strong and also neaLaN and zorte. They have that kind of CIS experience with each other in the same region, and also obviously they've talked with each other a bunch so that also makes sense. JACKZ has ties to maLeK from being on a very strong team in G2 and their history of success together.

So to me, once it starts to make less and less sense that we're gonna have a core and team that has synergy with each other from the start, or it was at jeopardy because of various pieces, potentially not going through and I'm gonna keep that generic as of why the roster didn't end up going through. Look to me, EG Black was always at the top of my list when it comes to team synergy. The core has played together for a long, long time. Man that made so much more sense to be and it was always a path that we're exploring in parallel. So it was a no-brainer honestly at that point.

There have been rumors swirling about what the back room staff will now look like and whether things will be downsized. What can you tell me about that?

I would want to bring EG Black into the tier-one circuit, and keep their core intact as much as possible. With that in mind, Axed will be the head coach. Look, to me that makes no sense to bring a core together and boost them into the tier-one circuit and take away support that they're used to or replace that with support that they're not used to. To me, it only makes sense that you keep Walco, you keep HexT, you keep Axed. They're the folks that have the most experience with each other, right? Of course Jeorge and Junior are really, really important pieces as well that have been playing together. RUSH, you're not here without RUSH, right? And so to me, making minimal changes to the core was super important. So, Tommy will be the head coach.

So what is the roster going to be now?

This is to me a very interesting conversation because to me EG Black is here for a reason, that part is true. They found success with their five, right? So inherently though, when we put EG Black or a team like EG Black into the tier-one circuit, there's a risk. They're gonna be traveling a lot more. The grind is real. You're in Europe all the time, playing against the best teams when you do play matches. We're not just in ECL, right? There's an inherent risk going into the season anyway. I wanted to take some risk, as well, and fit in the best pieces possible, in my opinion, to make this roster successful as potential. So the roster will be HexT, Jeorge, junior, Walco, and autimatic.

What are going to happen to players like neaLaN, Brehze, wiz, refrezh, vorborg, and RUSH going forward?

I mean there's some great pieces right there, right? To me it's an exciting time because they're great pieces, they're great pieces that fit nicely in other teams' cores potentially. You have refrezh and Vorborg, they come from the Danish scene and had a lot of success there. Maybe that's interesting to a team looking to boost their Danish team and also international teams of course, that have experience with that.

At the same time you have Brehze, you have neaLaN, you have RUSH as well, we're gonna help them explore options, of course. And with some new organizations coming into the play, the CS2 hype is real and at the same time, whatever, if they want help with anything, with reaching out to organizations, of course I've had those conversations with all of them and we're gonna do our best. So for me, we are full force ahead with EG Black and also autimatic coming in. RUSH is our sixth team member for that for that roster.

That being said, it's in flux to decide with RUSH together, we're being very collaborative there. If you are inactive and you're helping the team transition, you're working with Axed and autimatic to see where the roles work the best, and if in that process you're watching the team play and helping them out, but in the meanwhile you get a good offer, you find another team that makes a lot of sense for you to join, we're gonna make that happen. So to me, of course, he's a sixth member and he's gonna help the team transition, but we're being very open with him specifically because we also want to see him succeed. If there's a great offer from, of course, we're gonna help make it happen.

What happens with the EG Black project?

We're obviously in discussions, we want to be able to support the NA scene as best as we can. We are just putting all our resources behind making sure EG Black transitioning to the tier-one circuit is a success. So other discussions around future teams and how we're going to continue supporting that NA scene, It's just in flux. So I can't give you a clear answer right now. Right now, the reason is, the season is starting so quickly. I'm not saying we're special, but training camps are gonna be starting even before the player break ends, right? That's how you prepare. The first event is literally three days after the player break ends that being BLAST groups, so we have to prepare for that.

We need to make sure that everyone is feeling comfortable integrating with autimatic as well and it is a new team. Anytime you have a new change, there's a risk there, so we're setting them up for success. That's the main priority, which is why honestly, the thinking around, how we're gonna help support further teams, right now is something that we're gonna start exploring in a couple weeks, most likely.

Looking at North America, Liquid spoke about unsustainability in the region in a video. Did any of those reasons come up for you as well in potentially leaving North America?

So I did watch the video briefly, so I'm not totally sure what their reasons were to be honest. What I can say, overall, is that to me, there's a lot of viability, whether you're in Europe, or NA, or even different regions. I think there's always gonna be trade-offs, right? So, for example, being able to convince potential partners that being in NA is a great idea, that works for several partners. If you're in Europe and you go the other direction that also works for several partners. To me whether you're an EU or NA team, there are value propositions both ways.

So for us, the reason we were exploring both regions in parallel or whatever mixture made the most sense, is that we know there are viable options to make a sustainable team everywhere. So, like I said, I can't speak specifically to what TL said, but to us, we could make it work in Europe, we could make it work in NA, we have strong ties to NA, this is where our roots are. So the fact that we're giving EG Black this opportunity to show themselves and they've had a history of having success in NA, I think it's gonna be a really, really cool story. So I'm excited about personally.

EG Black appeared to be a fall back plan, why did you do the parallel options and not simply just have a Plan A, Plan B, or Plan C? Does this not hurt the players if these options fall through, like it did?

It's a great question, obviously. So I was very open and transparent with EG Black and the roster options we were exploring in Europe at the same time that these are all paths that we're exploring. Even the players that potentially were not gonna be making it on either roster iteration, right? Because, of course, there would be who's zorte replacing? All those conversations were happening in parallel and it was obviously very transparent. So, the one thing I'm confident about is that no one can say, and I can say with 100% confidence that these are parallel paths, they were A, B, C, D. We were also were exploring, "Why EG Black... why would we have a blueprint program if we can't explore that path in parallel."

We're in a luxurious position when it comes to that. It's not the same as let's say, TL exploring the rebuild. They should have Plan A, B, C, and D they have one team at that point where they're exploring. As a GM, I feel very stress free because to me, I had great options.

It's really funny, but to me, it's like I always knew that there were so many things in the trade-off list that we were creating where EG Black was at a higher level than even our tier-one EU options. There are of course several areas that the tier-one, "EU rebuild", would have more great opportunities than the EG Black roster as well. So to me, I was just so confident that in either direction we could secure would be good, that is something that honestly allowed me to be pretty chill in this process.

Were buyouts ever a stumbling block when searching for players?

Yeah, I mean, to me it's a combination of a lot of factors and buyouts are obviously a big part of it. I mean, how much salaries are, the finances overall, right? Buyouts play into that picture as well as to me, out of the finance side of things, the biggest thing was that the core has to have synergy. Whether it's a synergy that I can rely on that they've had success in the past, or it's synergy where I know that these people like to work with each other. I was okay with either, I had some kind of flexibility there.

Of course buyouts play into the picture and I think it's pretty obvious that of the players we were exploring, electroNic was probably gonna be the highest buyout, right? There were discussions of ranges to me, regarding electroNic. It wasn't a situation. Honestly, how most buyout negotiations – the way it works is the organization that has the player will throw out a really, really large number and generally that's the one that gets reported, but that's not the one that generally would ever get accepted by either side, they know that.

Being realistic, maybe that's something that ends up getting reported. What ends up actually going through and negotiating agreed upon is dependent on so many things. For example, I'm sure in this case, I don't know this hundred percent, but if NAVI decided to move away from electroNic, they already have a replacement in mind. Of course, they can be more willing to lower that amount over time and things like that. What makes sense is that negotiation and being honest with each other in that process is important and of course, the number starts out very high for a player like electroNic as it should.

EliGE seemed surprised towards the end of the day that the EG plans changed. What was the timeline of him being informed?

As soon as I figured out that the EU roster option was in jeopardy, I told everyone. The problem is, and this is not something we can get around, but by nature, when the roster lock is happening that day after, that of course adds last minute pressure. So, to me, I would have loved to be able to know this even for my own sanity a week ago or two weeks ago. At the same time, what I can't prevent is things that are outside of our control, that impact the ability to create a roster. As soon as I figure that out, I'm not trying to string anyone along and saying, "It might workout," because that's the worst thing you can do. So as soon as it was clear to me that it was in jeopardy, everyone knew. It's also tied to another timeline that's outside of my control.

Why not start earlier, especially concerning transfers that are knowingly inherently complicated?

What I'll say is this entire transfer process was relatively clear until recently and I can't explain because I think it's not gonna help in this situation. I think the best thing I can say is that there were hurdles that we were comfortable were not gonna get solved within the BLAST roster lock period. They're not hurdles that are insurmountable, there's tradeoffs like I said. There's this great path waiting for me that I have explored from the start of this off season, which is EG Black, and there was also a potential for maybe going a different direction, even if one of the players that I wanted to pick up in the EU rebuild was not available. That's an option too, right? The thing is when we're validating that there is an impending time where we can't control due to that, a lot of the totality of the factors, really, I made a decision.

Knowing that there was a potential to be ranked last in BLAST anyways, why not incur the penalty anyways and spend more time working on the roster transfers?

If I just keep smiling on text, would you just say smiling and parentheses, or...

We know about the penalties and to be honest, the penalties weren't the number one factor that's impacting this. It's more, are we comfortable, I want to get the team started in a training camp. Let them go into the BLAST event with some practice, can we hit those timelines? The BLAST roster lock is there and if we can avoid missing it, we should avoid missing it, and avoid penalties. So, like I said, the totality of the factors involved, I wasn't comfortable thinking about solving this stuff with it still being uncertain, potentially harming other players in this process. Let's say it didn't work out even if you waited, let's say.What about EliGE, JACKZ, what are their and other players in this lineup, what are their outlooks like then?

So, it's not operating on the BLAST timeline, but forced into it because everyone is?

That's part of it for sure, but at the same time, do I want to send a lineup at the last minute under pressure to an event, not getting them able to be set up properly at EG with no practice? Those are all factors man, and the roster lock day is one of them, other players also looking for teams within that time frame is another... these are tier-one players who have expectations to be playing in these partner leagues, starting the season, right? These are all factors in my mind where I'm taking away opportunities if I'm not being upfront with the cost-benefit of letting this keep going. If the worst case doesn't work out, I'm evaluating the worst case for everyone. I have to like that's my role.

Looking at EG Black, what is the pathway for the team looking into the future being the main team?

Yeah, one thing that's for sure true, is that from now until the RMR cycle next year they will get a ton of time in Europe, between BLAST, EPL, and and potentially other events in Europe, as well as just general training camps in Europe and being able to practice. They're gonna be in a great position especially being already one of the top teams in NA. They were already a top team in NA. They're only gonna get better through this experience. I'm not blind to the fact that it's not only gonna get better, meaning there's gonna be situations, we play against the best teams in the world, and we're like oh shit this is a bit harder than we thought, and that affects how you play when you come back home. We know this, we are aware of it, we're in front of this.

It won't surprise us, it won't surprise me, because I know that this is not just gonna be a straightforward path to qualifying for the Major, even if the NA region is easier. We still have to put in the work. We still have to expect us to have issues and when those issues happen, how do we deal with it? And the biggest issue most likely will be that we're gonna get somewhat of a reality check playing in the tier-one circuit, not necessarily the team, I'm saying the entire experience.

This is new for three, four people on this team now. So that entire experience will be tough, it'll be challenging. It'll also be very enjoyable, very productive. With the break in between, all of that and the RMR cycle. It's like we're actually really well set up for success in the next RMR. We're gonna be able to grind it, we get a break, we start the next season off, the RMR is a month after the next season most likely starts right in February. We're gonna be primed and this region got "easier," I'm sure teams will step up. That's what competition is about. I'm not looking at it as if the region is easier. I'm looking at it as that, we're already a top team in this region and now we're just gonna get stronger.

When choosing between wiz and junior, how did you get to that decision?

That decision actually was pretty interesting for me, because on the one hand you have wiz who has had recent tier-one experience. On the other hand, you have junior who's been crushing it, similar to wiz when he was in EG Black before junior joined. A big part of what I said, in the beginning, is that I want to have a roster that has synergy with each other recently, as well. The fact that junior has this synergy and strong success, its a better bet going into the next season. That's not saying that wiz has not improved drastically. That's not saying that wiz can't come into that roster and play great as well. He has experience with the roster overall. At the same time, junior has shown that he should get that opportunity too. It's just a decision and I wanted to make minimal changes to the roster and the core if we were going to go in this direction of EG Black. So to me, that was the reason, not if wiz is ready and if he can perform in tier one again or not.

Editor's note: After the interview, valens wished to include additional clarity regarding the role of Damien "maLeK" Marcel within the organization:

maLeK will be much more hands-on in this team compared to the Vorborg/neaLaN/autimatic lineup. As a Strategic Coach in the past, he was a consultant to each of our four teams rather than being part of day-to-day practice and putting his sole focus into one team. Whereas previously he would help individual coaches and players on a 1-on-1 basis, in this new role he will be traveling with the team as much as possible and focused on just this crew. It’s undeniable that Damien’s veteran experience will be crucial to this team during their transition to the tier-one circuit.

autimatic and Damien will be critical in making sure we can adapt quickly to struggles that may be otherwise difficult for an overall inexperienced team in this scenario to figure out by themselves. We are very mindful of not messing with the core formula that allowed EG Black to find success, even against tier one teams like FURIA, paiN, and MIBR in the domestic circuit. During their tenure on EG, the Black squad showed consistent and measurable progress through the last year and with a handful of roster changes. The core of Axed, Walco, and HexT is present in this team as well, and I know that they can adapt extremely well also. Tommy and Damien have collaborated in the past several times, and I have seen first hand how willing they both are to understand, and then enhance, each other’s thoughts rather than defend their own.

Where Damien will be vital is to be the facilitator of individual player development as he sees areas of improvement during our transition process. The team will rapidly gain experience against higher-level competition and through a more rigorous travel, practice, and event schedule compared to what they were used to. There will be natural pressure involved, and I couldn’t ask for a better leader than Damien to help Tommy and the rest of the squad confront it head on in a positive way. With this being the most hands-on role that Damien has taken on in the recent past at EG, I expect more efficient review sessions and better targeted feedback to each player as well. We already had a great formula with EG Black, and this is us proactively enhancing it before we realize we HAVE to.